Alan Hirsch on the Five-Fold Ministry: How It Can Unlock the Church’s Potential & Help You Flourish As A Church Leader

Podcast

Dec 6

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Alan Hirsch and Jason connect in this week’s episode to explore mission, church leadership, and the five-fold gifts in Ephesians 4. Jason starts by asking Alan how he would even define the role he has in the church, as a speaker, writer, but also movement starter, how does he see himself? Alan jokes that he isn’t always sure, but that he feels called to start movements and speak into how the Church can better lean into its mission and stay outward-oriented in its functions.

One of the ways Alan defines what he is called to do, is by looking at his gifting as defined in Ephesians 4. He would identify as being wired and empowered by the Spirit to act in an apostolic role for the Church, building movements and shaping the culture and leaders for them. He unpacks how more pastors would better lead if they also understood their gifting from APEST (apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, teacher), and how a lack of understanding this often is what drives burnout or frustration in ministry. Specifically, he fears that the church often wants pastors to fit into the roles of teachers and shepherds, but neglects the other gifts as necessary functions.

Later, Jason asks Alan what he is thinking about as we emerge from lockdowns and the pandemic across much of the world, has the church learned what God wanted us to in this time? Alan isn’t sure. In some ways, the pandemic showed us how Sunday-centric many churches were. Without the large room gathering, people had little engagement with spiritual practices and the community or mission of the Church. He hopes that we can see more churches learn to “play without the Queen”. This is an analogy he uses to explain how great chess players often learn to play without the Queen piece first because it’s the most powerful one. Doing this teaches you how to use the other pieces and not be so reliant on just one type of move. Similarly, as churches, Sunday services can be really effective to teach, welcome new people, see conversions, and receive donations, but do they stop us from learning to play the larger game with all the pieces? Do community, mission, justice, serving, and other parts of a vibrant church become neglected by an over-reliance on services?

Alan is passionate and provokes all of us to reflect on how we, as the Church, can more seriously receive the call to make disciple-makers. We hope you enjoy this conversation.

Alan Hirsch

Alan Hirsch is the founder of 100 Movements, Forge Mission Training Network, and Future Travelers, and 5QCollective. All these organizations focus on pioneering leadership development and training and consulting on the church as a missional movement.

Known for his innovative approach to mission, Alan is widely considered to be a thought-leader in his field and has worked with churches and organization across the world, but mainly in North America, Europe, and Australia.

Hirsch is the author of numerous award winning books including The Forgotten Ways, The Shaping of Things to Come, ReJesus and The Faith of Leap, Untamed, Right Here, Right Now, On the Verge, and The Permanent Revolution. His experience includes leading a local church movement among the marginalized, developing training systems for innovative missional leadership, and heading up the mission and revitalization work of his denomination.

Alan is co-founder of the M.A. in Missional Church Movements at Wheaton College (Illinois). He is also adjunct professor at Fuller Seminary, George Fox Seminary, Asbury Seminary, among others, and he lectures frequently throughout Australia, Europe, and the United States. He is series editor for IVP's Forge line, Baker Books' Shapevine series.