David Kinnaman & Mark Sayers: Where God Might Want To Take Us Next
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In today’s episode, Jason is joined by both David Kinnaman from Barna and Mark Sayers of Red Church to explore what some of the latest data and church trends might mean for the future of the church and pastoring.
Barna in 2019 and 2021 did a significant research project called the Connected Generation where they interviewed 18-35 year olds on areas of church engagement, mental health, and global concerns. In this episode, they specifically explore the Canadian data and what it might reveal about the shifting trends in young christians and non christians. Something Mark emphasizes is that although many of the trends can seem discouraging, we have seen them coming; the pandemic just acted as a portal to jump us ahead faster. For example, many of the people who have left the church during the pandemic were already considering it anyways.
So where does that leave us? Well, both David and Mark have hope. What remains is a faithful remnant who have chosen to stay and who are hungrier than ever for the things of God. Those who have stayed embody the resiliency that David and Barna have been studying for years. What this means for our churches is that we can lean deeper into discipleship and the work of the Spirit because we don’t just have attenders, but apprentices.
Jason asks them both what they see over the horizon for Canada and what kind of leaders we need to be for the Canadian Church. David reflects on his own experiences in recent years, dealing with loss and pain and how it’s brought him closer to God. The leaders of the future will be those with humble courage, says Mark. Humble in ourselves, yet courageous because of our hope in Jesus.
Although a sobering look at the state of the church, this conversation encourages us that God is shaping the next generations for the work he wants to do in our country and His Church. We hope you enjoy.
David Kinnaman (Right) & Mark Sayers (Left)
David Kinnaman
David Kinnaman is the author of the bestselling books Faith For Exiles, Good Faith, You Lost Me and unChristian. He is president of Barna Group, a leading research and communications company that works with churches, nonprofits, and businesses ranging from film studios to financial services. Since 1995, David has directed interviews with more than two million individuals and overseen thousands of U.S. and global research studies. He lives in California with his three children.
Mark Sayers
Mark Sayers is the senior leader of Red Church in Melbourne, Australia. He is passionate about spiritual renewal and the future of the church. Mark is the author of a number of books including Strange Days and Reappearing Church. Mark lives in Melbourne with his wife, Trudi, his daughter, Grace, and twin boys, Hudson and Billy.